So Oppo, What Do You Think of This.

"Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis" (Dwhite95)
04/01/2016 at 18:00 • Filed to: None

So someone I know got arrested for DUI, but I think it’s bullshit.

So what happened was he was out on the town for the night and afterwards he just decided he was too drunk to drive. So in his drunk mindset he decided he would just sleep in his car, and drive home in the morning. Well a cop decided to come up a question him, while he was sleeping, not that surprising. They eventually arrested him for DUI because “the keys were in the ignition” his car is push to start. And since his keys were in the vehicle they counted it. He is confident that he can get out of it, what do you think?

DISCUSSION (34)

Steve in Manhattan > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:03

1. Kudos to your friend for knowing he was too out of it; 2) that’s the defense (although he should consult a lawyer) - he knew he shouldn’t drive but that he needed to be out of the elements. Driving means moving. The cops are fucking idiots.

Trunk Impaired 318 > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:04

Definitely a grey area but yea, unless he was parked somewhere he shouldn’t be I think its a pretty dick move to charge him with DUI.

Master Cylinder > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:04

Were the keys just in his pocket? If so, yeah, that’s bullshit and I’d be fighting it. If they were inserted into a key hole (only ever owned old shitboxes so not really clear on the standard arrangement for push-button starters) then it’s slightly less bullshit but still kinda bullshit.

In either event, fighting it is a good option for your friend. DUI convictions can really eff up your future. Definitely wouldn’t hurt to talk to a lawyer with experience in DUI defense.

Sneaky Pete > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:12

Same exact thing happened to a friend of mine (except his car wasn’t push to start...it was the old twist the key in the ignition). Got arrested for DUI, thrown in the drunk tank over night, spent thousands on fighting it, had his licence revoked for I think it was 6 months, and it was eventually “reduced” to wet and reckless or some BS.

The short - your friend is pretty much screwed.

This was in CA so your state laws may vary.

'Wägen, EPA LOL > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:18

That sucks.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Master Cylinder
04/01/2016 at 18:18

Depending on the state, it may be bullshit but it may very well stick. I’ve known a few people get DUI’s because the keys where within reach of the driver even though the car was parked and they where sleeping it off.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Sneaky Pete
04/01/2016 at 18:19

This. It may suck but it will probably stick.

Dusty Ventures > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:32

Rule 1 for sleeping it off in your car: sleep on the passenger side

RoadsterRevolution(wants a Range Rover Classic) > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:33

DUI is DRIVING under the influence, if he was not operating a motor vehicle it really is not justified, if the key was in the ignition that might give the cops slightly more justification but not much more. If it was in enough proximity to start the car but not in a key thing it is bullshit.

Chariotoflove > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:34

I would think that you can’t be convicted of driving drunk unless you are driving. However, I am fully aware that the law and logic do not always go hand in hand. Paging Mr. Lehto. . .

DanZman > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 18:44

The only time I ever slept if off in my car, I was in the passenger seat and the keys were in the gas cap.

Goggles Pizzano > Dusty Ventures
04/01/2016 at 18:59

Back in the day we put the keys under the vehicle too.

spanfucker retire bitch > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 19:03

Pretty common actually. He might be able to get off on a lighter charge, but I’d be surprise if they completely let him off, bullshit or not.

My friend did that once, except he hid his keys under under a rock on the lawn he parked next to. Cop came by, tapped on the glass, but couldn’t charge him for anything because he had “no way” to start the car.

WilliamsSW > Steve in Manhattan
04/01/2016 at 19:07

Exactly - presuming that he was in a parking lot or typical parking place, he was doing the RIGHT thing, and they’re trying to punish him for it. I don’t know the legalities, but hope he gets a good lawyer and gets out of this. As far as ‘keys in the ignition’ goes, hopefully he was not in the driver’s seat, and can argue that he couldn’t have started the car because his foot couldn't reach the brake pedal? Good luck to him...

thereisnospork > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 19:08

According to random CA lawfirm I googled (IANAL): http://www.bortelduidefense.com/after-drinking… the vehicle has to actually move for it to be considered a DUI, which bodes well.

Regardless definitely a lawyer up moment unfortunately. Disgusting how the laws/courts penalize people for being responsible and not driving drunk.

Steve in Manhattan > WilliamsSW
04/01/2016 at 19:13

Don’t know it you need to shine the Steve Lehto bat signal here (he’s mostly product defects/bad mechanics, I think), but my lawyer brain (GW grad ‘97 - go Colonials!) tells me this should be easy to get thrown out. Of course, all of this is governed by state law, and there are 50 of them, which potentially means one outcome in one state and another one in the one next door. It’s like being sentenced by a Bush judge or a Clinton judge - I know the one I want to draw.

Master Cylinder > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/01/2016 at 19:17

Yeah, it’s definitely not a good situation to be in. I can kind of understand the reasoning if the keys are in the ignition ready to go, although if the car is never actually started it’s difficult to say that you’re actually operating it.

So yeah, definitely a situation in which one should be lawyering up.

Svend > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 19:17

Technically he is drunk in charge of a vehicle as he was drunk with the keys inside the car.

As the vehicle was stationary and the officer didn’t witness the engine running or driving it’ll be hard to prove Driving Under the Influence (of alcohol).

In future he should be more aware and lock the car and put the keys in the glove box, under a mat (ie somewhere out of sight and not on his person) or preferably get a taxi home or crash (bad pun) with a friend at their house.

S65 > Dusty Ventures
04/01/2016 at 19:19

Sleep In The Back Seats If You Have Them.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 19:19

It depends on the state, but many state’s case law will support a DWI conviction simply if the vehicle is under the control of the accused. Bullshit it may be, but that is the way works. If you’re going to sleep it off in your car, the back or passenger seat is the place to do it with the keys nowhere in the vehicle with you. Leave them with the barkeep and get them back when the dude who cleans the place shows up in the morning, hide them in the bushes two blocks over, or whatever. Just make damn sure they are not on your person or within your drunken and slumbering vicinity.

In college I used to freelance as a paralegal primarily working for an attorney who did contract DWI and traffic ticket prosecutions as a fun little aside to his real estate contracts practice. Beyond the obvious not drinking and driving, the best thing one might do for themselves is to remember that the answer to any question a law enforcement officer asks is always no. It may or may not significantly change the course of an encounter, but it will give your defense attorney something to fight with on the back end. The answer should always be that one has no idea why they’ve been pulled over, never admits to having done something wrong behind the wheel and has always had NOTHING to drink. If the officer is asking you this, he knows your denial is probably bullshit, but it significantly changes what it takes for him to win. Be polite, be brief and deny everything. Make him decide if you’re worth the effort, instead of making it easy.

An admission of having had anything at all to drink will almost certainly result in doing human tricks on the side of the road, which will probably result in a breath test or blood draw, and whatever evidence is obtained is probably going to be admissible. When these facts are true, your attorney is not going to have much to fight with. It will simply end up being a negotiation over your punishment in exchange for your guilty plea and minimizing the resources expended in your prosecution.

Also, the answer is NEVER two beers. In almost every DWI case I worked on, the defendant stated having “two beers” or “just a couple of drinks.” I feel pretty confident in saying that if the answer is two beers, one can bet their next paycheck on getting to ride in the back of a police car.

Dusty Ventures > S65
04/01/2016 at 19:23

Even better, and likely more comfortable

Steve in Manhattan > Dusty Ventures
04/01/2016 at 19:26

Or in the trunk, provided you have one of those pull things to get out.

jimz > Future next gen S2000 owner
04/01/2016 at 19:26

yeah, this. It’s bullshit but he might still be screwed.

Dusty Ventures > Steve in Manhattan
04/01/2016 at 19:29

No good, the trunk is too cold most of the year, since it’s not insulated and the car’s HVAC can’t reach it.

coqui70 > Steve in Manhattan
04/01/2016 at 19:30

Lawyer up - this one is beatable and understandable.

The Compromiser > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 19:35

Driver can start the vehicle/has access to the keys is an automatic charge where I am. Best intentions and all but it’s repeatedly supported in the courts is my understanding.

That being said, the keyless ignition issue is the next challenge they should address. If the car keys are locked in the trunk and you can’t get to them (think 80s car), you are good. If you lock your fob in the trunk, you may not be able to get it, but the car will start and drive....

Oh my I’ve gone crosseyed

Kinja'd!!!

Steve in Manhattan > Dusty Ventures
04/01/2016 at 19:37

Another reason to live in a moderate climate ... we might get snow this weekend!

Dusty Ventures > Steve in Manhattan
04/01/2016 at 19:47

I’ve heard this rumor. I am now convinced the weather is drunk

Steve in Manhattan > coqui70
04/01/2016 at 20:47

Agreed.

Steve in Manhattan > Dusty Ventures
04/01/2016 at 21:03

Perhaps ....

benchslap > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 21:12

Depends on the state. I'm a criminal defense attorney and have won trials on similar facts. But every state is different.

benchslap > RoadsterRevolution(wants a Range Rover Classic)
04/01/2016 at 21:21

In some states it is driving or attempting to drive and being in the car with the keys in many situations can be construed as attempting to drive.

MUSASHI66 > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/01/2016 at 21:57

State? Here in CO, DAs will posture and try to go for a DUI, but they will usually deal at motions because juries hate this kind of shit. It is a stupid ass law and it punishes the people for being responsible.

sonicgabe > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
04/02/2016 at 03:28

Besides getting a lawyer, this will probably come down to how the judge feels about the situation. He/she might not be willing to interpret the law differently to take in to account a change in technology. Or maybe they will or have already. This has had to have come up somewhere before. Research the hell out of it. One might be able to find a case from the same state where your friend got this DUI.

Another option that should be available is to opt for a jury trial. If your friend has a clean driving record, comes across and an honest, decent fellow, and what you told us is exactly how it all went down (he wasn’t an asshole to the cops, didn’t have an open container in the car, didn’t actually pass out trying to start the car...), he has a very good chance of convincing a jury that he was doing to responsible thing and wasn’t actually breaking the law.

He also might be able to get the charges dismissed at a pre-trial hearing if the judge can be convinced that the charge was bullshit to start with.

His whole case will be technicalities and technology. How far does the fob have to be from the car to not work thus nullifing the keys in the trunk trick. Based on whatever’s state law, does DUI mean “driving” or does just sitting in car count? Was he parked on the street or in private lot, or even in a secured lot (was he somewhere the cops were permitted to go without a warrant or permission)? Was he doing anything else illegal that caused the cop to notice him?

Best of luck to him. Keep us updated.